Do the Palestinians have a right to form a state? If a one-state solution were implemented, what would happen to the Palestinian population? Why is compromise impossible with Hamas and the Palestinian Authority?
The Danube Institute asked Yossi Dagan, the head of the Shomron Regional Council, about the fading prospects of the two-state solution.
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Yossi Dagan is an Israeli right-wing politician and activist who has served as the head of the Shomron Regional Council since 2015, the de facto leader of the Jewish settlers in Judea and Samaria.
He holds a bachelor’s degree in law from Ono Academic College and a master’s degree in law from Bar-Ilan University. He served as an officer in the Israel Defence Forces and currently holds the rank of captain in the reserves.
Dagan became one of the leaders of the struggle against the Israeli Disengagement programme. He is a prominent lobbyist within the Likud party and an official advocate for Israeli settlements in the Western world. Dagan also leads the Homesh First organisation, which is dedicated to resettling and rebuilding the Jewish settlement of Homesh. He resides in an Israeli settlement in the northern West Bank.
There Was a Palestinian State on the Ground before 7 October: Gaza
The following was originally published by the Hungarian Conservative. Text in bold type is podcast host Tamás Maráczi’s questions or remarks, text in normal type is Yossi Dagan’s response. Maráczi, a journalist at the Danube Institute.
Will there ever be a Palestinian state?
We have never had a successful Palestinian state on the ground – never before.
The State of Israel existed in the days of the Bible; the whole story of the State of Israel is the story of the Jewish people. The Land of Israel is also the foundation of the heritage found in the Jewish books and the Christian books. I think we have two wars together – we, the European people, and the Israeli people. One war is against terrorists, barbarians, as we witnessed together on 7 October. The new war lies in the realm of legitimation, and the first operation in this war is the one concerning the occupation. I don’t think there is another nation in the world with such a complicated and lengthy relationship between the nation and the land like that of the nation of Israel and the Land of Israel.
But Jewish people already have a state: the state of Israel. However, the Palestinians – the other population that has lived there for over a thousand years, the Arabic-speaking population who identify as Palestinians – do not have a state. They have a language, they have a population, their ancestry lived there, they have a territory and they have a national identity, which is not the same as the Jordanians or the Lebanese people. Do they have a right to form a state?
I think that in Israel we have Jewish people and Muslim people – but never, in all of history, never in the Land of Israel, even during a thousand years of Muslim rule, did anyone speak of a Palestinian state. Some of the people living there were citizens of Egypt, some were citizens of the Jordanian Kingdom and others were citizens of Syria. The idea of a Palestinian state is spin – it’s fake news. Because during all those centuries of Muslim control over the land, they never established such a state, nor even seriously proposed one. Do you know how many times Jerusalem is mentioned in the Quran, the holy book of the Muslims?
It mentions Al-Quds.
How many times is it there?
Probably zero – the name of Jerusalem doesn’t appear in it, as far as I know.
But in the Bible, Jerusalem is mentioned more than 600 times. So, it’s the same with the state.
Never, in all of history, never in the Land of Israel, even during a thousand years of Muslim rule, did anyone speak of a Palestinian state.
The real question – and the real story – is justice. The Jewish state on the land of the Jews is, first of all, a historical justice – especially the Jewish communities and towns in Judea and Samaria, in the biblical land, form the basis of the historical justice for the Jews and for the Christians. And we have a war to destroy the lies, to eliminate ignorance, because I believe that our biggest enemy is ignorance. And we have more and more ignorance from anti-Semitism, and anti-Semitism attacks the truth, attacks justice all the time. So, we must educate people about what happened on the ground. And of course, we have Muslims – in the State of Israel, the one and only democratic state in all the Middle East, we have 20 per cent Muslim citizens. A Muslim judge sent our former president and our former chief rabbi to jail, because we are a real democracy. But the nationality situation should be based on justice and truth. The Land of Israel is the land of the Jewish people. And we know this from the Bible.
I know this, and I know the realities. The question is whether the Palestinians can have a state beside your state. Does the two-state solution work or not?
I must tell you, we are very respectful of all people – Jews and Muslims. God created us. The Palestinian Authority is not a state, but it has autonomy. They have a separate system. They have a parliament. Unfortunately, they voted Hamas into their parliament. They have municipal systems. They vote – Hamas spends much of their budget on hospitals, so they vote for Hamas all the time. They have police – half an army – but unfortunately, it’s like a dictatorship with a lot of corruption. What they do not have is the equipment they could use to destroy Israel. But besides this, their autonomy is no different from the autonomy of Greenland. The Palestinian Authority has separate officials, a separate budget and a separate system. But they can’t have the option to build an army with rockets. Hamas did have – but in Judea and Samaria, they have no rockets, they have no tanks. They do not control the borders either. They have no tools they could use to destroy Israel and carry out a second Holocaust – like they constantly publish that they want to do.
I read the charter of Hamas, and their big problem is not with the State of Israel, but with the Jews themselves. It’s not the State of Israel, but the presence of the Jews that is the problem. They want a caliphate there – they want 100 per cent of the territory. I understand there is no compromise with Hamas. But you are a religious man, and you have the Bible, and you have the conviction that Yahweh – God – gave the whole land, from river to sea, to the Jews. So, I’m asking you: is there any compromise on your side?
All the Land of Israel is ours because God brought it to us – by the holy rules and by historical justice. He gave us the Land of Israel for the next generations of Abraham. It is not just a gift – it’s also an order to build our homeland. If you take a look at all the stories of the Bible, if you zoom out, they show the same direction all the time: the way to the Land of Israel. Also in Samaria, God gave two testimonies to Abraham: one, God swore to Abraham that this land was for your next generations; and two, that all the nations who bless the people of Israel, God will bless them, and all the nations that curse Israel, God will curse them. But we know that God also placed the Muslims in this land.
You need to do something with this reality.
I think we must respect the people and help them create life – to create an education system. But the Europeans and the left-wing government of Israel created a monster together. I mean, we had a few options to start a peace process in the Middle East. Maybe the biggest “success” of the Oslo Agreement – which was formed by the ideology and dreams of the European Union administration from the progressive side of Europe – is the Gaza Strip. Why? Because the Gaza Strip is the first Palestinian state.
In 2005, we destroyed all the Jewish houses, we destroyed all the industrial zones, all the agricultural zones and we built a new border. 80 years ago in Europe, they said: It will be without the Jews. And it was the same in Gaza – only the Muslims remained. There was the Palestinian state. Our former president, Shimon Peres, said – before they evacuated the Jewish community from the Gaza Strip – that after the evacuation, Gaza would become the Singapore of the Middle East. Before 7 October, there was a Palestinian state on the ground. So, for this project, we have to find a solution – but not a Palestinian state.
I understand that this project didn’t work. But there is another project: Trump said it would be a Riviera. Will that work? I read that you advised Prime Minister Netanyahu that the Jewish settlers should return to Gaza, which is a scandal for the international community.
I don’t want to bring Jewish communities into Gaza now. We must win – not just for ourselves, but for all of us – because I think most of the smart people in Europe understand that we are just the appetiser, and you are the steak. The goal of Hamas is not just to kill or get rid of all the Jews – Hamas also has the Muslim Brotherhood ideology that they must cleanse the world of Christians and Jews. We are standing together against this. We have a mission to win. Hungary, for example, would never think of doing this: giving a country to others, destroying all the houses, taking all the citizens out – and after that, they bring us 7 October. I didn’t think that we would make it like Singapore, but part of the people of Israel thought we should try to do this. But after 7 October, we take Gaza back. Also, I believe in the sovereignty of Judea and Samaria, and it’s not just historical justice – because after 7 October, all the people understood that we must control the high ground near Tel Aviv. But it’s also a message to all the bad guys in the Middle East that we are winning.
Did you come to Budapest for this reason – lobbying the Hungarian government for its support of the sovereignty plan for Judea and Samaria?
We appreciate it – the people of Hungary must know this. There are a lot of people in the United States I work very closely with: people in Congress and in the Senate, people from the Republican Party and the Jewish communities in the States, and of course, people in Israel – they very much appreciate your government for its support, for the partnership. Because we have a problem: ignorance, and people who are liars – like Macron – who try to create the theatre of the two-state illusion. They don’t understand that they attacked Europe more than they attacked us. Your government understands the situation, and their agenda is, I think, the hope for the future of Europe.
We understand there are two networks in the world: the bad network – which is a strange alliance, by the way, of the extreme left, the progressive movement, and radical Islam – and the good network of the culture of the Jews, the culture of the Christians. And through this network, we must win together.
Mr. Dagan, Hungary is only one country in Europe, but many European countries plan to officially recognise the Palestinian state. What will you do if they do this?
It is not relevant. Europe cannot create a real state in our region. By the way, it’s the opposite of the Oslo Agreement – because, based on the Oslo Agreement, only these two sides can negotiate together and the Palestinian Authority cannot decide unilaterally on any international issues. But it’s very dangerous, because every time people like Macron, and terrible leaders like Mahmoud Abbas and Hamas, try to create changes, we unfortunately see a lot of terror attacks in Israel – and in Europe too.
I must tell you, I’ve worked for years with local leaders and sheikhs in the Palestinian Authority; they are good men, brave men. Why brave? Because the Palestinian Authority is a dictatorship. Part of the Palestinian police tries to attack and arrest them. They work with me on a few plans about, for example, the Emirates Plan, that they can be separate from the Palestinian Authority, because the government takes your tax money from Europe not for education or hospitals, but for big salaries or for terrorists.
32 years have passed since the Oslo Accords. We have seen many conferences for peace, we have many agreements – but we have no peace. A lot of politicians in Europe keep talking about guidelines to boycott our industrial zones. Why? Because they don’t want to create peaceful coexistence. In all the Middle East, only in our industrial zones in Judea and Samaria do Jews and Arabs work together, near the same machine and receive the same salary. But these brave leaders want to create more industrial zones and foster more relationships. We must recognise the reality that we have a lot of Muslims – and they must recognise the reality that God brought the Jewish people back to the Land of Israel.
If the two-state solution doesn’t work, there will be then a one-state solution. If you want a Jewish state, an ethnic Jewish homeland, where do you put the Palestinian Arabic population?
We must recognise the reality on the ground. After the Oslo Accords, we had a lot of bad situations. I don’t know if you know this, but the first anti-Semitic education system in the world is in the Palestinian Authority. Part of the curriculum includes ‘Mein Kampf’. And all of this is funded by your tax money.
I’ll tell you what I asked one important senator from the States four months ago. I said: “I got elected three times in the Samaria Regional Council with 80 per cent – so it’s not 10 per cent. If I run in the election in the Palestinian Authority, maybe I have a chance to be elected.” He smiled and said: “Yes, I don’t know if they like you, but there is huge corruption in the Palestinian Authority. They take all the money from all over the world for corruption and terror – and not for hospitals and schools.” So, I asked the senator: “Why can’t I then be elected in the Palestinian Authority?” “Because you don’t have a Palestinian ID,” he said. OK, this is the answer. After the Oslo Agreement, I cannot be elected to the parliament in Ramallah, because they have a separate parliament. They cannot be elected either to the Israeli parliament – the Knesset in Jerusalem – because of this. I don’t think it’s realistic, and we must be realistic. To bring sovereignty, we don’t need to bring sovereignty to all the Muslim villages. We need to win.
Where will you put the Palestinian population, if you have a one-state solution?
They have the Palestinian Authority. They have autonomy now. If we take out the base of terrorism from the Palestinian Authority and Hamas and help local sheikh leaders, for example, we should bring the European funds not to the terrorists, but to the good people who want to build hospitals and schools, who want to work with the Jews and not kill the Jews – that could create a completely different situation. We need sovereignty, which is not just about historical justice; it is about taking control of the strategically located mountains and keeping the State of Israel alive on the ground. We must do as you did in Europe after the Second World War: the Marshall Plan was implemented to change the situation, to educate that we must live together.
We need to bring sovereignty and historical justice because it’s in the Bible. We don’t want to push out the Muslims. They have autonomy, but there shouldn’t be a Palestinian state with the power to do a second Holocaust. We, the good people in Europe – especially your government, Hungary – we, the people in Israel, and of course, the people in the United States, need to work together to fix these terrible issues left unsolved after the Oslo Agreement, to create a safe common future.
Watch the full podcast below.
Chapters and timestamps:
- 0:00 – Introduction
- 0:27 – Will there ever be a Palestinian state?
- 2:09 – Do the Palestinians have a right to form a state?
- 5:29 – Is there any chance of realising the two-state solution?
- 8:44 – Is there any room for compromise on the Jewish settlers’ side?
- 12:58 – What is the settlers’ plan regarding Gaza?
- 15:32 – What did Mr. Dagan lobby for in Budapest?
- 17:46 – If European countries officially recognise the Palestinian state, what will Israel do?
- 22:38 – If there is a one-state solution, what will happen to the Palestinian population?
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Categories: Breaking News, World News
Until the 1960s in school we called the country Palestina. The country of Israel was not made until 1948, but Palestinians already lived there. How can you make a country where one already exists?
Hi Ingrid C Durden, historic Israel has been called many things over the centuries: Canaan, the Promised Land, the Land of Israel, the Holy Land and Judea, for example.
According to Encyclopaedia Britannica,the earliest written record referring to the region as “Palestine” dates back to the 5th century BC in the Histories of Herodotus, who called it Palaistine, referring to the territory of the ancient Philistines.
https://www.britannica.com/place/Palestine
Then it was called Roman Palestine or Syria Palaestina.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Palestine
Palestine is not an Islamic or Arabic word: it was firstly Greek and then Roman (c. 63 BC to 324 AD).
Considering the Bible warns about a beast with 7 heads, which many believe represents 7 empires (Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome and one “that has not yet come”) and that the 7th empire will be the revived Roman empire – the fatally wounded head that comes back to life – do you think it’s a coincidence that they are trying to resurrect the Roman name or the name that recalls Israel’s enemies, the Philistines?
We should recall, that since Jesus came to Earth the Bible is relevant to all of us, in other words, including Christians and Jews alike. The Philistines were part of an anti-God alliance that were attempting to stop God’s plan for all of us, not just the Jews, coming to fruition. The Philistines and their allies were attempting to stop the Israelites from taking possession of the the land of Israel and so fulfilling God’s promise.
https://biblehub.com/nkjv/revelation/17.htm
https://learn.openchristian.education/blog/sangwa/what-are-the-seven-heads-of-the-beast
What has happened in the past is also an allegory for what is to come. The modern day Philistines, if you will, will return in an attempt to stop God’s promise being fulfilled (which is that we have eternal life with Him in Heaven). But they will only rule the world for a short time. When the revived Roman empire seizes control of Jerusalem from the Jews and crown their “King of the World” (the anti-Christ) in Jerusalem, know that we have only a few years left on this Earth before it is utterly destroyed.
Rhoda, very good reply, but to “cut to the chase” as it were; God gave the LAND under discussion to Abraham’s (promised) seed (Isaac, Jacob) Genesis 17:7-10.
A “two state” ‘solution’ is anything but! God knows nothing of it!
H Islander, you say, “a ‘two state’ solution … God knows nothing of it!” This is true. They will not take Jerusalem until and unless God allows it. Satan is attempting to usurp God’s will to bring about the end of days so he can crown his representative on Earth as “King of the World” as the counterfeit Christ (i.e. install his abomination in God’s temple).
Anyone who knows the truth knows that it will happen in God’s time not satan’s – and Jesus is victorious over all. As we are told, Archangel Michael, who keeps watch over Israel, will fight to keep the anti-Christ from being crowned in Jerusalem until the time God has ordained. Amen, all glory be to God and all thanks to Jesus Christ our Saviour.
Rhoda, in your previous comment, you refer to “the seven heads”.
Daniel 2:37-43 makes it plain that Babylon, Persia, Greece, and Rome were indeed successive world empires. The final empire will be “the revived Roman Empire, but were the first two empires/kingdoms Egypt and Assyria?
I believe that the Bible teaches Nimrod’s was the first; And the beginning of his kingdom was Babel (Babylon). Genesis 1:10. To borrow B.W. Newton’s words “the native monarchy of Nimrod”. The second was Israel, a theocracy as was seen in the reigns of David and Solomon, who were types (imperfect types indeed) of Him that is to come.
When Israel failed, then Nebuchadnezzar initiated the times of the Gentiles (which dispensation we are now in) Luke 21:24.
Hi Islander, I’m not a Bible scholar and there seems to be different ways to interpret it. It’s a case of gaining the best understanding we can with the available information.
https://learn.ligonier.org/articles/seven-kings-revelation-17
The first article below lists Babylon as one of Daniel’s four beasts and Babylon as the third of Revelation’s beast’s heads (the first and second unknown, the seventh also unknown). It refers to kings and kingdoms, but I interpret the seven heads of the beast in Revelation as empires. Simply because there have been and are many kings who have had/have kingdoms. So “kingdoms,” I feel, is too broad and doesn’t help in identifying which “kingdoms” they are.
https://revelationlogic.com/articles/the-seven-heads-and-ten-horns/
The article below also lists Babylon as the third of the beast’s heads, with Egypt and Assyria as the first two, and the United Nations or another global entity as the seventh.
https://learn.openchristian.education/blog/sangwa/what-are-the-seven-heads-of-the-beast
The article below lists the same first six empires as above, but names the seventh as Anglo-America.
https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/revelation-13-beast/
I have even seen an article that claims the British empire is the seventh head of the beast. But, as with “Anglo-America” in the article immediately above, I tend to think this is incorrect. The other empires listed were “beast” empires, so to speak. By “beast” empire, I mean they were anti-God and, as far as I understand, had made an oath/pact to destroy Israel/Jews in an attempt to prevent God’s promises being fulfilled (as with the sixth, the seventh beast empire will add the destruction of Christians and Christianity into their pact/oath). The British empire did not have this objective and it was not anti-God, so I believe it’s incorrect to include the Anglo-American or British empires as one of the beast’s heads. I feel this interpretation is driven by politics rather than faith.
Both Nimrod and Nebuchadnezzar were kings of Babylon (Nimrod is viewed as having an empire rather than just a kingdom). I’ve heard Nimrod being referred to as the first anti-Christ type figure (a proto anti-Christ we could say). Nimrod was perhaps their first attempt post-flood to bring about the end of days, I don’t know, it’s up for speculation. Nebuchadnezzar is also referred to as an anti-Christ type figure. In this line of thought, both kings give us some idea of the anti-Christ’s character or what he will do at the end of days; to some extent they are warnings from the past about the future. Nimrod, some say, is the one that the anti-Christ will descend from (or so they claim according to their beliefs, their bloodline belief system, “they” and “their” being the 13 families and so on from which the anti-Christ will come).
It is said that during the time of the Roman empire, i.e. books of the New Testament, “Babylon” was used as code for “Rome” in an attempt to avoid persecution (much like we had to substitute “covid vaccines” with a coded word or image to avoid censorship during the covid era). So perhaps this muddies the water a bit, i.e. when did the New Testament writers mean Babylon and when did they use the word “Babylon” as code for Rome?
https://revelationtimelinedecoded.com/babylon-is-the-code-name-of-rome/
WRONG! You bit the bait of lies! Read the truth for a change:
To Whom Does the Land of Israel Belong? – Hal Lindsey 6/18/20
“The Jews are the indigenous people in the land of Israel. It goes back 3,500 years. UNDRIP specifically says it cannot be used for the purpose of racial discrimination. If anyone says this doesn’t apply to Jews, they’re violating the resolution’s provision against discrimination.
Over the years, a series of international treaties have confirmed the historical right of the Jews as the indigenous people of the land, including Judea & Samaria (known in the media as “the West Bank”). Michel Calvo is a lawyer specializing in international law. Last month for the Gatestone Institute, he wrote, “After the Balfour Declaration of 1917, the Treaty of Lausanne (1923), British Mandate for Palestine (1922), San Remo Resolution (1920), &Treaty of Sevres (1920) created international law & recognized & re-established the historical indigenous rights of the Jews to their land.”
In 1922, the League of Nations recognized & affirmed “the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine & the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country.” The UN Charter specifically forbids the UN from undoing international law & agreements written prior to formation of the UN.
Yahve said to the Jews . ” Go all over the planet and I will give it to you .”
Not in one place but everywhere .
Please provide some evidence for your claim that the Treaty of Lausanne (1923), British Mandate for Palestine (1922), San Remo Resolution (1920), &Treaty of Sevres (1920) “recognized & re-established the historical indigenous rights of the Jews to their land”.
As far as I can see, they were based on the Balfour Declaration (1917) which makes no mention of “historical indigenous rights of the Jews to their land” (see attached image).
Also, note the phrase “it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine”. The behaviour of the modern state of israel clearly invalidates the Balfour Declaration & all agreements based on it.
Obviously not in Israel!
WATCH: Hamas Brutally Tortured Before Murdering Them, Including Children
https://gellerreport.com/2023/10/watch-hamas-brutally-tortured-before-murdering-them-including-children.html/
Rhoda Wilson is here on a mission. Month ago she was claiming that there is no hunger in Gaza. To intelligent people that should speak volumes.
Yes, I’m on a mission. I will call out lies and propaganda where I see it. Intelligent people will understand this is why independent media exists.
If you believe, without question, the lies and propaganda spread by the TV, it follows that you will struggle with many of the articles we publish covering a variety of topics.
I have pointed out two obvious take aways from your comment, but there are others. To intelligent people, your comment speaks volumes.
Good on you Rhoda!
BTW, I’ve looked at some of your links re “the seven heads”.
This old cart horse will be back here in due course.
Hi Islander, I look forward to hearing your thoughts.
Good afternoon Rhoda,
Having read your links-they are all way-off on the “pivotal” point. I won’t read any JW.org material – you ought to know why!? Ligonier are bad enough on prophecy!
I can do no better than quote B.W. Newton:
Some have endeavoured to alter the translation of this passage, and, instead of reading this verse as epenthetic, have attached it to the foregoing thus: “the seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sitteth, and are seven kings.” But it should have been remembered that “the mountains” or “heads” are contemporaneous, not successive; whereas the seven or rather eight kings are emphatically successive. – “Five have fallen, the one is, the other is not yet come” – the beast is the eighth. Besides which the beast, who is the eighth of these successive kings, cannot symbolise the same thing as one of his heads, which would be the case if the proposed translation were adopted. Some also have spoken of an “eighth head”: but that is altogether a mistake. There is no such thing as an eight-headed beast; in that case there would have been eight mountains too. The beast has seven heads, and the woman sits on seven mountains – heads and mountains symbolising the same thing, viz. seats of governmental power, of which he, as representing the eighth and last form of executive power (in other words, being the eighth king) becomes finally the sole possessor.
“And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth and is of (ek) the seven, and goeth into perdition.”
All who remember the use of this word (eighth) in Leviticus and elsewhere will know, that whilst it implies the commencement of something new, yet that it represents that new thing as connected with and springing out of that which has preceded. There could be no resurrection without previous existence – no eighth day unless seven had preceded. The era of Antichrist will pretend to bring to the world just what the day of resurrection will really bring to the saints – satisfying and enduring blessing. Antichrist will be “the day star” of their hopes. He will profess to be the “son of the morning.” But their new day will soon set in the blackness of darkness forever.
Page 432-433 THOUGHTS ON THE APOCALYPSE.
B.W. Newton.
On the “pivotal” verse (as so named in your open Christian education link) I would repeat and emphasise Newton’s words; Besides which the beast, who is the eighth of these successive kings, cannot symbolise the same thing as one of his heads, which would be the case if the proposed translation were adopted.
It would be good if you could read the context of the above, I’m sure you can find it on The internet Archive?
I have, I believe, all of Newton’s works (original copies) in my library. His BABYLON & EGYPT is an absolute must read. If you can source it, read his CATECHISM ON THE SEVENTEENTH CHAPTEROF THE REVELATION at the end (pages 620-642).
Babylon means Babylon, Rome means Rome, Israel means Israel, Babylon is NOT a codeword for Rome.
Genesis 10:8 tells us they left off to build the city. In a soon coming day they are going to finish it-yes the literal city of BABYLON. Revelation 18 describes its literal destruction.
Took me an hour and 5 minutes to type this!
Hi Islander, thank you for taking the time to type out your thoughts. Talking of the seven heads representing seven mountains and seven kings. Some interpret this as a dual prophecy, i.e. it represents two things at the same time. In this line of thought, the seven mountains are seven hills. Many seem to think this ties in with the seven hills of Rome. As for the seven kings, this is where I interpret these as empires, not a specific man/woman. In this case the eighth “king” being “of” the previous seven (the previous seven beast empires), starts to make sense, i.e. the eighth “king” will have the same aims, beliefs etc as the previous seven did; to simplify this, in my mind, I boil down the beast empires’ aim as stopping God’s promises being fulfilled.
As I have said before, I’m not a Bible scholar. I haven’t read the original Greek version of Revelations which would solve any translational issues, nor have do I have intimate knowledge of history to put these visions in context of what was happening or had happened when these visions were given to John. For Revelations, knowledge of the past, the current at the time it was written and the future will be needed to interpret it definitively one way or another. So I rely on others and, as I said, there are a few interpretations that are about. I follow the one that makes the most sense to me.
You may have seen me mention before that I believe the end of days is not now, nor will it be in our lifetimes. I believe it will be in about 200 years time, which goes against many who believe we are the final or penultimate generation. I believe we are living through the trial run, set up phase or whatever you prefer to call it – they will go as far as they can each time they attempt to bring the end of days and anti-Christ’s rule, but our generation will not be the last that battles against satan’s plan. So my view is, as long as people are aware that the Bible warns us of the anti-God plot that is afoot, different interpretations of the final years can, and should, be freely expressed and discussed/debated. I believe that some of the meaning of Revelations will only become apparent as the end of days approaches – it is a book that is important for, and specifically written for, those living at those times (the last/final generation). It is on this basis, that I feel I only need a general understanding of the signs spoken of in Revelations, and so I spend less time reading and contemplating Revelations than I do other books of the Bible.
Rhoda, I’m not an any moment rapture man like many professing Christians who comment regularly on this ere site, no, not at all.
But I will say this, I base my timeline entirely on what is revealed in the Revelation. This is why I focus on the literal rebuilding of the city of Babylon. As I write it hasn’t yet been rebuilt, much less the appearing of those which were made rich by her…in one hour so great riches is come to nought…cried when they saw the smoke of her burning.. wailing, Alas, alas, that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! Rev 18:15-19.
Now that we are in what many today call the NWO, I believe TPTB after the fallout of 2025-30 will concentrate all their power, wealth, and energy on rebuilding that literal city upon her own base.
And He said unto me, to build it an house in the land of Shinar: and it shall be established, and set there upon her own base. Zechariah 5:11.
Zechariah’s prophecy was given long after Nebuchadnezzar built his Babylon (Daniel 4:30).
How long will it take for this literal great city to be rebuilt, established, trading, and be subsequently destroyed, only God knows! It could be 200 years as you confidently assert, but it could be less than 50 years, or even less? The trading that goes on in the coming rebuilt Babylon might only go on for a year or two, before those lamentations are made for her in Revelation 18.
I visited Dubai back in 2021, some say that city sprang up literally overnight. How long will it take to rebuild a city that is already there-with the energy and financial clout that Dubai knew nothing of?
Regardless, on what do you base your “200 years” upon?
I’d like to know!
Hi Islander, you ask, “what do you base your ‘200 years’ upon?”
God has repeatedly and consistently used the number seven (or multiples of 7) to designate a time of peace, rest and restoration.
In six days God created the world, and rested on the seventh. The seventh day is the Lord’s day, and one of the Ten Commandments is to keep the Lord’s day holy. According to Old Testament laws, the seventh year is a year of restoration, i.e. the cancellation of debts, land to lie fallow etc. The 70-year period between the first deportation of Jews to Babylon in 605 BCE and the return under Cyrus the Great, who issued a decree allowing the Jews to return and rebuild the temple. And Revelations refers to 7 years at the end of days (divided into two periods of 3.5 years).
So, I believe, the end of days, when God serves judgement on the wicked and gives his people eternal peace/rest/restoration, will be at the end of the sixth and the beginning of the seventh millennium. The seventh millennium is the Lord’s millennium, the Lord’s millennium will be kept Holy.
According to the Hebrew calendar, the creation of the world occurred in 3761 BC. The current Hebrew year is 5786. The seventh millennium begins in the year 6000 (Hebrew calendar). The start of the 6000th year (Hebrew calendar) begins at nightfall on 29 September 2239 (Gregorian calendar). We are now in 2025 (Gregorian calendar). The year 2239 AD is 204 years away (Gregorian calendar). Only God knows the day and the hour, so we can’t say exactly when the final 7 years Revelations refers to will take place, which is why I say about/roughly 200 years. My understanding is that the anti-Christ is crowned in and rules from Jerusalem at the mid-point of the final 7 years (at the end of the first 3.5 years and as a sign that the second 3.5 years has begun).
I must be clear for anyone who reads this: I am not a prophet. God has not appointed me to give His messages or to interpret His written word for other people. I am simply expressing my own understanding of end time events.
Rhoda, I’m really glad you say “I am not a prophet”! There are NO prophets around today-only FALSE ones.
Thankyou for your explanation, but with respect, on your logic (for that’s what it is) we could say “we don’t need to study the Scriptures-what is the point of studying fulfilled/unfulfilled prophecy; all we need is a calculator!!!”
A few verses to chew on:
We have also a more sure word of prophecy, whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
2 Peter 1:19-21.
Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein, for the time is at hand.
Revelation 1:3.
For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
Revelation 19:10b.
The apostolic admonition is to study 2 Timothy 2:15!
BTW, the Lord’s day is the eighth day, the first day of the week.
Hi Islander, you say, “on your logic (for that’s what it is) we could say “we don’t need to study the Scriptures-what is the point of studying fulfilled/unfulfilled prophecy; all we need is a calculator!!!” That’s not what I’m saying. You asked why I believe the end of days is about 200 years from now and so I set out why I believe that in a logical fashion to help with understanding. That’s all. I could have simply said to you, “read your Bible, the clues are everywhere” but I, instead, chose to explain.
As you will note, to come to the conclusion that I have, I would have to be, to at least some extent, familiar with the Bible. How have I become familiar with what the Bible says? I read it and ask for wisdom and understanding as I read. You may not class that as “studying the Scriptures” but that’s okay. I don’t feel the need to live up to people’s expectations or standards. Nor do feel the need to follow people’s rules, do as they do, say as they say or believe as they believe. I don’t feel the need to impress people with my knowledge or win an argument of a spiritual nature. Put simply: I don’t follow or look up to people. I focus on building and maintaining the best relationship with God/Jesus/Holy Spirit that I am able. This, I believe, should be every Christian’s aim – to put God first and above all. If a comment I make sparks an interest – great, then I hope people go and ask God for His wisdom and understanding. I don’t want people to follow me or what I say about God, I want people to follow Jesus/God/Holy Spirit. That is why I was careful to add, “I am not a prophet.”
Rhoda, I believe you have misunderstood where I’m coming from.
I don’t follow any man-only the King!
Have you not considered that God has raised teachers up in every age to give the sense, and caused them to understand the reading. Nehemiah 8:8?
The litmus test as always, is “does the exegesis agree with what is written”? If it doesn’t then reject it.
As you know there have been many exegetes from the Reformation and the balmy age of the puritans down to the present hour. The great foundational Christian doctrine of Justification by faith-that teaches persons are declared righteous before God solely through faith in Jesus Christ, not by their own works. God raised up Luther to remove the shackles of popery. Christology, soteriology, Israelology, the Doctrines of Grace and many other biblical topics have been expounded by those who went before us-faithful men of God (more so those who held to the great Reformed Confessions), though false teachers have crept in as well-which is why we should be like the Bereans who searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. Acts17:11.
As we were primarily discussing Revelation 17:9-10. regarding the mind which hath wisdom…five are fallen, and one is.., I believe Mr. Newton’s exposition on the Harlot of Babylon is biblically correct. God gave him that wisdom.
I know of some who say “we only read the Bible-we need nothing else” Self styled Biblicists!
Why would I think I’m necessarily right? Some things are very hard to unpack, I’m sure you agree? I pray God would lead me in the right path.
Hi Islander, God will lead us both on the right path. It doesn’t matter if we disagree on interpretations of some things in the Bible. The crucial thing we agree on is that Jesus is the truth, the life and the way. That is the knowledge we need, it is this knowledge that will save us and keep us on the right path. And we both have that knowledge 🙂
Just because a self elected organisation that calls itself United Nations (A billionaires Club) decree that a legal fiction that calls itself Israel (created out of imagination and thin air) holds title to the wealth of the lands known to the world by the name of Palestine does not make their claim legitimate. If their claim was so, why all the conflict?
All based upon a mythical claim of endowment of their god!
In answer to the question posed in the headline, No, there will never be a Palestinian state for the simple reason is that they don’t want one. They never have. Their objective has always been to eradicate the Jewish state not build one of their own.